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NBC News investigative producer for special projects
If Egypt’s President Hosni Mubarak is forced into exile, he is likely to have access to billions in assets. But if Egypt’s successor government tries to recover any of it, it will have a hard time, if history is any judge.
Estimates circulated inside the U.S. government, developed by various agencies, put Mubarak’s wealth at between $2 billion and $3 billion. How much of that total is outside of Egypt, and in what form, is uncertain. How much is recoverable is an even smaller fraction.
AP reported that some in Egypt believed Mubarak controlled $70 billion in assets, but U.S. officials dismissed that number as wildly exaggerated. They noted that Bill Gates, the richest man on the Forbes 400 list, is worth $53 billion.
Nick Peck, Head of Complex Investigations of Nardello & Co., worked in a similar position with Kroll Associates when that company was hired by Kuwait to track Saddam Hussein’s wealth. He’s also familiar as well with Kroll’s attempts to track, and recover, the wealth looted from the Philippines by the Marcos family.
“The initial numbers are often very overblown,” says Peck. “Often suspect in terms of how much the official has.”
Officials say historically most of the assets controlled by dictators remains within their home countries. Peck pointed to a stash of millions of dollars in cash and gold bars found hidden underground in Iraq following the war.
“Always concerned about their own security, they like to keep an amount liquid in their own country,” says Peck. “But if he’s planning long term, for a future outside the country, a dictator will think, ‘Let me stuff some in Swiss bank or a Panamanian nominee account.’”
Indeed, finding the hard currency or the gold bars at home is nowhere near as difficult as tracking paper and real assets overseas. Peck points out that the Marcos family invested heavily in midtown Manhattan real estate, while Saddam held tens of millions of dollars in public stock in European companies. The Shah of Iran used a family foundation to acquire a Fifth Avenue office building.
Proving ownership, says Peck, is difficult.
“If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s likely a duck, but that often doesn’t meet the legal threshold to seize that asset,” he notes. “It’s a tough battle to prove it. There are nominee accounts," accounts in another person's name, "but no bank savings book. What you’ll almost never find is a deposed leader’s name linked to accounts.”
Peck says he also heard reports while investigating Saddam that certain events would trigger asset transfers from financial institutions in western locales to more obscure institutions.
There are other common denominators, says Peck. Often times, a trusted family member and/or confidante is located overseas near the assets. Saddam’s half-brother, Barzan al-Tikriti, controlled Saddam’s overseas assets from an office in Geneva. (Barzan, like his half-brother, was hanged by the Iraqi government for crimes against humanity unrelated to his investments.)
“What people have to understand is there are no shortcuts," Peck said. "It's time consuming and requires some degree of luck in getting the right sources to successfully identify the stolen assets."
In another country in transition, Tunisia's provisional cabinet on Thursday adopted a battery of "practical mechanisms" to enable it to recover assets of figures of the ousted regime, the country’s official news agency said.
Once recovered, "the smuggled and plundered funds and assets" will be used for the development of mainly poorer areas in the country, it said.
The U.S. govt certainly doesn't want to admit how much the guy's worth.. then they would be questioned as to how much of that we gave him and why did his country need so much U.S. aid money if he was so rich..!
He got so rich because he was pocketing our billions of foreign aide. I doubt the Egyptian people ever saw much of it.
Everywhere I read, Egypt is a poor nation. That the majority of the people (not surprising) are living in poverty. To see the travelogs you would think that Egypt was one of the more stable countries, with a good middle class. if it was as poor as I'm reading, I can see why the people would rebel. This must have hit Mubarek like a missile. He probably was more concerned with security issues, Israel, and Al-Quaeda he didn't hear the cries of the people.
"This must have hit Mubarak like a missile."
Don't kid yourself. His only concern was how to keep his power.
Now that is a golden parachute!
They all leave with money galore..IN ANY COUNTRY (counting the USA too).
Politics the road from rags to riches. Politics the road from riches to...well umm more riches?
Yep, doesn't matter where you are, politicians always seems to make out in office and after leaving office. Why do you think our politicians are so quick to use their own money to fund their campaigns? They know that they will get it back in the long run.
Hello Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. Cheney managed to grab the most money though.
I hear ya Chris, but I have to say all of them do it. Democrats and Republicans alike.
yes but it takes time to do the clean up before leaving, that's all Mubarak worked on over the last two weeks. paperwork, evidence of knowledge about crimes, perpetratioon of abuse of people, accounting, assets abroad.....etc. guys that's a lot of work! it would take two weeks to do all that.
I bet all other dictators are cleaning up too, just in case they'd have to make a midnight move.
The man's 82. How "long term" could his planning be?
He plans to be as rich as he can be for the rest of his life.
Greed is all about keeping, no matter the timeframe. I want what I have now, and I want more later on.
It's about his heirs and the estate. He wants the money to take care of his heirs.
And guess who's going to have his hands on it first? Mubarak. His heirs will probably be strewn across the globe hiding and living on a fraction of what he took for himself... granted it will still be a hundred times what I make in a year.
Give the money back to the people you greedy pig
Maybe they should hire the firm or legal agency that tracked the Madoff assets. So far, it seems they have done a stellar job. Since the US gives Egypt a billion and a half dollars every year, reality is now that money did not go to Egypt, it went directly to Murabak. Now that he is gone, do we now get to keep our billion and a half dollars and put it to better use in our own country?
@Shelton-----No way, we're going to flood more cash into Egypt while Americans do without because we must support millions of illegals! We are no smarter than Egyptians were for hundreds of years, but at least they have enough guts to go to the streets, all we do is keep paying while our "unamerican" federal government is in open collusion with mexico and its' illiterate and destitute ! The omnipotent federal government is bringing down the most powerful nation ever to exist! Before obama , the dirty deed was being done by greed, megalo-mania, and the gullibility of a good natured electorate, now it is being done by "progressive design" and the fruit of fifty years of radical 60s progressives being allowed to hijack Americas' educational system ! A system that became totally controlled by self proclaimed intellectuals after the birth of the "absurd" Department of Education , a move that destroyed states rights and demanded subservience to a totally inept and out of touch Washington DC!
You are a moron.
Jay, you made me LoL....especially since i was soo lost half-way through the above post!
Actually, Jay, everything Legal Texanlegal is right, although he chooses the wrong forum in which to bitch about the omnipotent federal government.
More money than you or I can imagine. That's how much he will have liquid when he goes. His country is starving and he hoards the cash. Not cool. Not patriotic. Egyptians have a lot to be proud of with their behavior these last three weeks against all odds. Their military deserves a lot of credit for keeping piece and making timely decisions to keep everything civil.
Uhmm how about just asking him?
Perhaps this is the reason for wanting to stay until September--get his finances in order and make sure he's not leaving any "paper trails" in his wake.
have interpol file charges and freeze all that money in the banks till the charges are taken care of
he could easily be charged with torture and crimes against humanity
Why is it all our pupets are so rich? There's got to be a richer troll in al of this. Hmmmmm.........
Yeah, it's called National Debt.
We don't have anything to back our money, only the "honest assumption" that the US will be around long enough to pay it all off. And I'm not so sure about that any more.
there is no money in the world today that has any real value, all of it is fiat currency
Nothing will change simply becasue the US has to first learn to deal with a democracy in that region. We know otherwise......checkmate!
Has any body checked on cash behind the scenes between Haliburton and Cheney? I don't think so!!!! And how come Palin is not crying "Socialism" while Cheney gets one heart device after another paid for by us tax payers? And I mean real tax payers ... not "Joe the Plummer".
When talking about thieves ... we need to look closer to home!
Calling WikiLeaks.........HELP!!!!!!
The folks at the top are all alike here and abroad - THUGS!
2billion huh? well,well, well. that 2 billion sounds like 2yrs. worth of the aid we gave to Egypt. 1.5billion plus 1.5billion = 3billion.this guy is leaving with 2billion. i'd say that he was well payed for 30 yrs. of grief and bull s h i t.
his terms 2billion for me and 1billion for you.AMAZING ISN'T IT?
It's your tax dollars at work... pocket change compared to what we shovel into Israel.
Egypt receives about $1-2 billion in US foreign aid annually. Israel receives about $2-3 billion. Meh.
What I don't understand is how we can afford to give all this "foreign aid" in the first place". Last I heard, we are trillions in debt. It's like loaning your unreliable friend 5 dollars and leaving yourself with 15 cents... I makes no sense to me. I'm all about charity, but we also have millions of people suffering in the US. Millions unemployed and disabled. Capitol hill keeps talking about cutting off unemployment and social security to those who spend it back into our own system and yet we continue to give this much aid to economies that do nothing to assist our own? No wonder our debt is high and our economy is in the toilet!
In addition to that, there is always this talk about cutting our own services and programs who help those in true need (not bums and system fakers). It seems like we need to get our own priorities straight prior to even examining or participating in the affairs of other countries.
Government debt is nothing like personal debt. Read more macroeconomics.
Rumor has it that we give Israel approx $4B above the table and approx $4B below the table = $8B per year.
I'm sure they get much more than Oregon. There should really be a 51st star on the flag for the sake of truth in packaging.
What kills me is that these guys could steal 10 cents on the dollar and be extremely wealthy, and give most of the aid to their people. But no, they have to steal every last cent, just like their counterparts in Africa who steal the oil royalties, instead of building schools and hospitals.
Egypt is in Africa.
If Egypt has been getting $1.5 billion a year for a few decades, and Mubarak supposidly has $2 billion, the math says he was pocketing less than 10 cents on the dollar.
Perhaps he should have spent that $2 billion on something that would have kept the Egyption youth occupied. Or perhaps on a better police force that wasn't brutalizing people daily.
I like what people power accomplished - may not be much at the end though. Let it spread. See how thugs across the globe head for switzerland - including some very fat cats right here at home........This is exactly why we the people need tools like WikiLeaks........Otherwise we are powerless and clueless to the real games. I say let Facebook and WikiLeaks share the nobel!!!!!
If Bill Gates is down to $53 million then his week has been worse than Murbarak's. I think that should read $53 billion with a "B".
Thanks. Fixed that early on. Appreciate the help.
Every working American taxpayer should realize that most of Mubaraks wealth is more than likely American money! Money stolen from American workers to bribe Mubarak and the Egyptian military. When will Americans realize it is us that ought to be in the streets demanding our "unamerican federal" government be downsized dramatically and forced to return within the parameters of the United States Constitution! There were actually congressional members recently that brashly proclaimed that much of what the legislators do has nothing to do with the Constitution! This guy and any member of Congress that does not feel constrained by the Constitution should be impeached and denied any retirement from the government he has served with disloyalty! I see nothing in the Constitution that gives the US Government the right to confiscate individual or corporate wealth against the will of the people, some Americans seem not to realize that governments ability to tax is totally contingent on our willingness to pay! They have no power or no right to tax citizens against their will! Revenue sharing , which is the actual purpose of the act, but was changed out of political correctness to"block grants" was the real beginning of omnipotent federal government and the destruction of "states sovereignty". This "constitutionally illegal"act should be repealed and all states monies except for what it takes to support only the constitutionally enumerated powers of the federal government should go to Washington, DC! Meanwhile American suckers, Hosni Mubarak thanks you for the cash and the Egyptian people hate you for propping up a dictator! Think seriously what our "repressive federal government is doing to American freedom!
This is the exact reason that the US foreign policy of foreign aid is terribly flawed and needs to be reviewed and big adjustments need to be made in how much aid is given. The American tax payer is getting riped off, big time.
Can any one tell me where in the US constitution it justifies foreign aid?
This program is rife for corruption, is flawed and the US foreign debt is way too high to justify this huge give away.
Something's fishy about that word foreign aid. Instead look up the word "Bribe". We connive and bribe to support puppets that do the dirty work for us around the globe. You don't have to look far - look to the south and the entire continent down under. The administration was smart in recognizing the eventuality of Mubarak and thus put up the "people support" front to minimize any collateral damage as all was coming unhooked. Now the real challange is who do we find to give the "foreign aid" to in Egypt. In a true democracy foreign aid become a harder proposition. And you ask why we give the aid in the first place? Simply for the designs of the big thugs at the big corporations and the bigger thugs heading up the countries in the region. Is it any surprise these people have personal bankers in Switzerland? Case in point - the only democracy (no matter how pungent) Israel, is all the more difficult to control - simply becasue of the democracy factor. Perhaps in time we will relearn how to deal with other democracies in the ME with a better foreign policy. I hope this spreads like wildfire through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and the rest of the sheikdoms. FB+WL is definitely a duo due for the Nobel. Cheers!
yes, to sum it up it is BS.
i'm expecting the rise of many, many independents next election
If Bill Gates is down to $53 million then his week has been worse than Murbarak's. I think that should read $53 billion with a "b".
The average Egyptian earns around $5,000.00 a year. Hosni Mubarak is worth at least $2 billion. That means he could pay the salaries of 200,000 unemployed people for a year and still be a billionaire.
When you're 82, your life is pretty much over anyway and you're in the checkout aisle. Living on $1 billion versus $2 billion isn't much of a hardship.
History, and the Egyptian people, would look more favorably on Mr. Mubarak if he graciously gave back what he took fom his country for the past 30 years.
This is the terrible thing in foreign aid. There is no accountability about how much went to the countries people, how much went to those in power nor how much may have went into the pockets of our own politicians.
right on. yes they all are buddy-buddy during the honeymoon phase. then they take care of one another through lobbying, business opportunities abroad and at home, layered and laundered. how much money does one greedy needs: more
Mubarak is not just having money from his own peole but also part of our money.
Typo...3rd para...should read $53 'Billion' not $53 'Million'
Thanks, dragon171, caught that. Fixed. Thanks for the help.